Replies: 8
Views: 93
Last Post By: MikeyN ON: Sat May 19, 2012 8:03 am
Topic By: MikeyN ON: Sat May 19, 2012 8:03 am
Don't forget your woodwork cert, Angela . Or my 'ten lengths of the pool'.

I think that there is snobbishness either way.

I have seen unqualfied coaches sneer at badged up coaches, and badged coaches look down on the other lot. Says more about the sneerer's personality than anything else

There is a part of our culture that doesn't like people being 'too clever by half', and it fails a lot of young people in school (especially boys). There is also a bit of insecurity in some people when dealing with others who may be more qualified/educated.

However, I was always told 'education is no burden'.

Coaching as we know is about so much more than technical knowledge and I have direct expereince (that I shared in cnversation with Angela and MrWilliams ) of an A licence coach making young players cry.

I have also seen unqualified coaches that are very good.

But I have never seen a coach made a worse one by wanting to gain knowledge, and seen many coaches improved vastly by learning a little bit more about kids/players as people as well as bolting on some more knowledge of the game. It could be argued that a wider range of courses (or workshops ) would be benficial than mere football ones to find about about people and most important of all to discuss and share woith other coaches.

Some people are life long learners, some reach a point where they know it all then stop learning.

Replies: 8
Views: 93
Last Post By: MikeyN ON: Sat May 19, 2012 8:03 am
Topic By: currynchips ON: Sat May 19, 2012 8:02 am
Good topic. Would be interesting to review your thoughts 2 years after the degree is completed, see what the real world has to offer and what relevance your degree has.

Dario Gradi - degree, pe teacher.
Tony Carr - not sure, but qualified pe instructor.
Tosh Farrell - no degree.

Thankfully they weren't judged upon having one or not, although I accept they're probably judged upon other things that do hold some back.

I agree with players being fast tracked through. They've got years more experience, they've trained purposefully for 10 years plus as a youth, know the environment, had benefit of working with a range of coaches, can strike up fast relationships, instant mutual respect with others. And if I had the choice of 2 equally qualified coaches, I'd rather the ex pro.

Not sure England is lacking in producing talent mind - Wellbeck, Sturridge, Oxlade, Wilshere, Jones, Hart. Bright future.
Top down at least gives some guidance. As you've estimated, your course is going to produce 80% average to poor coaches. Not much of a success is it?

What my degree did for me, was make me a better teacher, a better adult and role model. As a coach I improved no faster than usual. I did have 7 years experience behind me before starting it though. And in my opinion, less than 5% of the cohort had any chance of desirable employment in the industry.

Do I think a degree is needed? No, and it's no big advantage to have one. However a masters is another matter...

Replies: 5
Views: 40
Last Post By: MikeyN ON: Sat May 19, 2012 7:50 am
Topic By: MikeyN ON: Sat May 19, 2012 7:50 am

currynchips wrote:First thoughts - as a role model you should not be a quitter. Poor impression.

Second - it's now a dilemma between being a coach and a parent. If your son decided he wants to play elsewhere you're going to go with him, so can you realistically commit to the team as coach?

Third - SEVEN YEARS OLD!!!! You are calling these kids top players, and very weak players. Why? Don't they have personalities, characters, charisma - that go beyond their footballing ability? Because that's what makes this fun. Not your goal difference, not 16 and 0, it's about being s group.

I knew a fantastic keeper who could have won league titles through all the age groups, but played 2nd, 3rd then 4th division football in the team his dad coached. Sounds like great memories.

Fourh - The grass may be greener on the other side, but you don't know if the cows have sh*t in it.

Replies: 5
Views: 40
Last Post By: MikeyN ON: Sat May 19, 2012 7:50 am
Topic By: currynchips ON: Sat May 19, 2012 7:33 am
First thoughts - as a role model you should not be a quitter. Poor impression.

Second - it's now a dilemma between being a coach and a parent. If your son decided he wants to play elsewhere you're going to go with him, so can you realistically commit to the team as coach?

Third - SEVEN YEARS OLD!!!! You are calling these kids top players, and very weak players. Why? Don't they have personalities, characters, charisma - that go beyond their footballing ability? Because that's what makes this fun. Not your goal difference, not 16 and 0, it's about being s group.

I knew a fantastic keeper who could have won league titles through all the age groups, but played 2nd, 3rd then 4th division football in the team his dad coached. Sounds like great memories.

Fourh - The grass may be greener on the other side, but you don't know if the cows have sh*t in it.

Replies: 19
Views: 547
Last Post By: MikeyN ON: Sat May 19, 2012 7:22 am
Topic By: MikeyN ON: Sat May 19, 2012 7:22 am

SeanHRFC wrote:Revisiting this topic,

I am very happy to say that this year we became National Trophy Champions

Replies: 5
Views: 40
Last Post By: MikeyN ON: Sat May 19, 2012 7:50 am
Topic By: CoachAndy ON: Sat May 19, 2012 5:00 am
Its part of the grassroots merry go round. Good players (and less developed players) leave to go other clubs for many reasons - all of which equate to them and/or their parents believing that things are better on the other side. Some will return, some will continue changing seats, some will just get off forever.

I think you need to ask yourself why are you coaching? Once you know your reason for coaching. it will be easier to make a decision regarding what you do next.

Replies: 19
Views: 547
Last Post By: MikeyN ON: Sat May 19, 2012 7:22 am
Topic By: SeanHRFC ON: Fri May 18, 2012 11:43 pm
Revisiting this topic,

I am very happy to say that this year we became National Trophy Champions

Replies: 8
Views: 93
Last Post By: MikeyN ON: Sat May 19, 2012 8:03 am
Topic By: SeanHRFC ON: Fri May 18, 2012 11:34 pm

angela wrote:lol we have 6 between us .

Chuck in the Big E ,and you got 10 .

Replies: 8
Views: 93
Last Post By: MikeyN ON: Sat May 19, 2012 8:03 am
Topic By: SeanHRFC ON: Fri May 18, 2012 11:27 pm
Fubzy - good to hear your opinion on the subject.

If you wouldn't mind, can I ask what experience you had prior to working at the CofE (including the level of football you played if any?) Also I would like to ask what you thought of the theoretical element of the UEFA B and whether you thought it was enough?

I completely agree that the degree relevance is vitally important. For example I would deem Sport Science, Sports Development, Psychology / Sport Psychology, Physical education as partially relevant. Whereas a sport coaching degree as very relevant, in comparison to a Business / Geography degree which would have no bearing at all.

I believe that undergoing a degree enables someone to discover the theoretical side of coaching themselves and encourages a greater level of reflective and reflexive practice as opposed to FA Badges alone. The aspects of pedagogy and scientific intervention (psychological, physiological, performance analysis, skill acquisition etc.) that derive from undergoing a degree enables a coach to develop a sound coaching philosophy that is underpinned by science....i.e. it has high accountability for its effectiveness. I have seen this from my own personal experience. The FA's top down approach of this is how it should be done eliminates a lot of this individual exploration and not all of it has any kind of scientific grounding at all.

JaySav & Mr. Williams - good to hear from you both also. A lot has been said about badges/degrees doesn't make a great coach and I completely agree. A person's greatest asset first and foremost is their personality. Having a proactive, fun, inspiring, empathetic, socially deft personality for me is the benchmark for anyone that should be working with kids - unfortunately this is not always the case. But for the youngsters that have the ambition to harness their skills into the professional game, is this personality enough? We should have higher expectations of our coaches, after all higher expectations are needed! Therefore I would like to go on the assumption in the rest of this topic that this personality factor is in place (as a side point, is this something that can be measured?).

You mentioned that degrees don't teach you how to deal with kids. In my opinion of my course, this is quite the contrary. There a variety of theoretical modules with specific aims of tackling the problems faced with dealing / developing children (Behaviour Management, Equity & Inclusion, Creating a Positive Environment, All of the psychology modules, Skill acquisition and many more i can't think of right now) as well as the practical application and placement modules that are mentored by expert coaches and lecturers, alongside the Core coaching theory / reflection modules that enable that coaching practice to be reflected upon, analysed and improved. I feel that with the changing world climate degree will be involving, to include more of this 'real life' experience as opposed to the standard sit down theoretical study.

Maybe it is not so much a case of every coach needing a degree, as I am certain there are many coaches that are great practitioners. However I believe that those that in charge of directing these great practitioners, i.e. your academy directors, academy managers and coaches, should do so that they are able to lead their teams of coaches onto excellence through educated decisions.

On a final note, I am not saying that a degree guarantees a certain level of knowledge. A degree is what you make of it and the level of autonomy of the learning develops different types of degree holders. For example, I would only regard the top 20% on my course as those with the capabilities to go on to become great coaches. The next 40% as those to go on to become reasonably good coaches, with the latter 40% having poor chances of making it as a coach and needn't have bothered parting with their £30,000 debt as they haven't engaged in the degree enough to get its full worth.

Replies: 8
Views: 93
Last Post By: MikeyN ON: Sat May 19, 2012 8:03 am
Topic By: angela ON: Fri May 18, 2012 10:53 pm
lol we have 6 between us .

Chuck in the Big E ,and you got 10 .